Swimming Pools in France

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Re: The Pool Laws and Their Grey Areas

I hear you loud and clear f1steveuk and do agree to an extent,
I do know that if you have a complying cover or fence & gate securing your pool, your deemed no fault if a 5 yr old gets in your pool and dies. Though I can't remember the exact time but you must respond to a pool alarm going off before a certain time elapses.

I did say our French neighbours don't comply with their pools but they don't seem to bother and just shrug.

Don't think there are any grey areas, you must have one of the 3 complying methods to stop a 5 yr
old or under to gain access to your pool. We have grand children 1,3,4,5,6 what they do is eye opening when told to wait for a minute before we go into the pool. 3yr old will push a patio chair up to the gate and try and open it. Grrrr

Did you check out the link I gave you for a fence, not too bad I thought?


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Re: The Pool Laws and Their Grey Areas

As many will know, this is not the 1st time that this subject has been agonised over on here.

This was a piece of legislation (annectodedly) rushed in by a Minister who sadly lost a related youngster.

Of course the rules are open to question as to whether anybody would take any notice of an alarm or whether a child might climb over a fence, etc, etc.

What it's about is yes, taking some sensible safety precautions for a wandering child from 'outside', but crucially reminding everybody that young children need to be watched all the time in the vicinity of water.

Not sure, but I wouldn't mind betting that most of the tragedies have been 'within the residents at the house' rather than a little one fetching up at a neighbour's place.

This wasn't particularly good Law and it cost most of us a packet, but if it raised everybody's awareness and saved more than a few lives, then it was worthwhile. You just comply, talk to your immediate neighbours (if they have youngsters) and make sure that you keep your own safe.
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Re: The Pool Laws and Their Grey Areas

We investigated all options when we installed our pool. The pool is close to the house and in easy view of the road. Fences are only relevant if they conform to the strict standards. It has to be close the pool, above a certain height and have a gate which must be kept securely closed.
We have no fences.
We use a standard alarm in the summer and a heavy duty winter cover when the pool is closed down. If we were out no one would hear if the alarm went off but we conform to the law.
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Re: The Pool Laws and Their Grey Areas

I am surprised that Linda is the only one to mention fences really? It is the fact that if the fence and gate does not meet the NF standard then it does NOT count as a deterrent. The info below is from http://www.mip-swimming-pools-france.com/Law-in-France.html

Fencing must comply to NF P90-306.
It must be a minimum of 1 metre in height.
The lock must be childproof and have a 2 action movement.
There must be no ledges or footholds for a child to climb up.
A building wall may be considered suitable as part of the fencing - e.g. side of barn.  
Fencing should be positioned a minimum of 1 metre from the pool edge - no maximum is indicated, however the law states that the fencing
must be around the pool area.
Fencing around the whole premises is not acceptable.  
If you wish to fence close to a perimeter fence, there must be an arc of 1.2m before contact with the perimeter fence i.e. to prevent someone clambering onto perimeter fencing and over pool fencing. 


POOL ALARMS
Swimming pool alarms must comply to NF P90-307.  These are often the cheapest option -
but are only as effective as your response time.  Which raises the question - If you are not present and a neighbours child falls in, who will respond, bearing in mind that you have the ultimate responsibility as pool owner.  Pool alarms will detect when someone or something has fallen into, or entered a specific area of the pool.  The alarm often has to be turned off for swimming - which necessitates someone remembering to put it back/turn it on once swimming is finished.  Pool alarms only detect when someone has fallen in, they do not prevent someone falling in.

SAFETY COVERS
Safety covers must comply to NF P90-308.  Safety covers cover the whole pool or the pool and pool edge.  They must be strong enough to take the weight of an adult.  Safety covers will state they are reinforced for safety purposes, some can be used as heat retention and for overwintering.
Separate summer and overwintering covers are
NOT the same thing and have already been the cause of a fatality in France.  Covers only provide security if the state the conform to the AFNOR standards and hence, the swimming pool law in France.  Separate Summer and winter covers are entirely different, summer covers provide heat retention, winter covers prevent overwinter debris and provide protection to the pool, not to people.
Safety covers are applied with manual roller or by automation, often increasing costs.

As a matter of interest, I have been told, by an expat pool pro, that an alarm is one of the best ways of witnessing a drowning. The response time for an alarm is 3 minutes if I remember correctly? How that is possible if you are not there is anyone's guess? We have a floating security cover and to open it I have to get my battery drill and the drive shaft and use that to wind it back. It take a couple of minutes, including going into my workshop for the drill. A fer years back we have friends visiting. They have a big labrador, Fred, and he was wandering around the garden and took a short cut across the cover. He got slightly wet feet and that is all.


John.

Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else.
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1
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Re: The Pool Laws and Their Grey Areas

And yet the artificial lake I built 500 meters from the swimming pool which is larger, deeper, full of murky water, trailing weeds and other plants, has no steps and slippery sloping sides needs none of this pish.



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Re: The Pool Laws and Their Grey Areas

That's cause if anybody fall in there you won't be able to see them and the fish will not need feed for a while Whistles [Www]Whistles [Www]

Same logic with the rivers, canals and other lakes init.. Mind you, when you get the lakes around here they are either patrolled or have signs telling you that you can't swim there. What happens when the blokes/birds go home after they knock off is anyone's guess?

John.

Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else.
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1
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Re: The Pool Laws and Their Grey Areas

It's all a "laugh" isn't it!!! I have said a few times, if it was a pond, nobody would think twice, so maybe the solution is to let the water turn green and move some frogs in.

My long term solution is to cover the pool. (Wooden decking boards on frames, that lift over the pool when we are not there, and are lifted off, on to the concrete surround to form the pool side walking areas when we are), in conjunction with the alarm. The alarm means I have at least one of the required modes, the cover (way to heavy for kids to lift off) giving me the peace of mind (though not I understand confirm to the code, but then the alarm is there!!!) as nothing will fit through the gaps.

Trust me, I understand that every country makes laws that don't quite make sense, and are frought with grey areas, that's how we can never win!!

"Some swine has taken the cork to my lunch"
W C Fields
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Re: The Pool Laws and Their Grey Areas

I'm not sure on that one Steve? Safety covers must comply to NF P90-308. so who knows?

A friend of ours put a really nice fence around his pool. Higher than the 1.3 metres stated and a gate that closed and locked, but it was not regarded as a correct fence. Stupid, but then who ever said that the law need not be stupid. I suppose it's to deter folk who would chuck up a lot of tat and claim it was OK?

How big is your pool? Because if it's any size a board cover that will support anything at all is going to weigh at least a couple of hundred kilos? That's taking the weight of cedar, a light weight wood, into account.

John.

Never forget that you are unique, just like everyone else.
http://johnamandiers.wix.com/johns-w-o-w-1
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