Swimming Pools in France

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Re: Water discharge regs?

 gardengirl wrote:

 We're about to start a study of  the cost of the pool costs, as they are extremely high, so I'll also put that question on the agenda.

I really truly believe in the case of the 3 aforementioned pool companies in France that as they have installed so many pools they are simply not questioned as "they must know best" and emptying and winterising etc are a huge income earner for said companies.  Plenty of British and American owners with their pools have observed how little actually goes for the money.

I would be happy to take a look at the running costs and give any input I can but with the Desjoyaux, Magiline and Waterair or any other mono block filtration system low cost of ownership/running won't happen as the system, if I can call it that is power hungry.

By contrast it is possible to run a pool with 85-90% saving over a standard setup which compared to the big 3 mentioned because they use over large pumps to alleviate the poor flow, this means using a pump twice as powerful and therefore twice as expensive as a standard setup.

In the case of Desjoyaux they also bring pressure to bear on owners to continue using only Desjoyaux branded products or terrible things will happen! The only thing that will happen is the bank balance will fall quicker as they are very expensive standard products.

On the upside, it is precisely because the mono block filtration does work to a degree when things are running ok, I knew it was possible to achieve the a similar water flow setup on a lot less electricity by simply not wasting it and that has been achieved and actually even the low energy solution is way better than a mono block setup so we have to thank Desjoyaux, Magiline and Water air for that because if I hadn't seen how bad the setup was I probably wouldn't  have started looking for improvement.

Passivpool Energy "A++" rated Swimming Pools, the lowest running costs in the Universe.
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Re: Water discharge regs?

 BJSLIV wrote:
This parliamentary reply seems to give a sensible pragmatic summary of the situation http://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2004/qSEQ040913862.html

Thanks good to keep up to speed but as I said owners want the work done and tend to what they need, If I thought it was a real problem I would try to advise as I do not agree to polluting rivers.

I thought my one paragraph summed it up quite well compared to the verbose politicians but what's new Smile [:)]

Passivpool Energy "A++" rated Swimming Pools, the lowest running costs in the Universe.
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Re: Water discharge regs?

 gardengirl wrote:

I really don't know why the pool has always been emptied - and yes, it is a terrible waste.

I have a feeling that there is a law somewhere that says that all pools used by the public have to be emptied each year.
I think it is more to do with health and safety than anything else.
Will try and find a reference.

Sue


Computing - it's another world
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Re: Water discharge regs?

 Théière wrote:
 gardengirl wrote:

 We're about to start a study of  the cost of the pool costs, as they are extremely high, so I'll also put that question on the agenda.

I really truly believe in the case of the 3 aforementioned pool companies in France that as they have installed so many pools they are simply not questioned as "they must know best" and emptying and winterising etc are a huge income earner for said companies.  Plenty of British and American owners with their pools have observed how little actually goes for the money.

I would be happy to take a look at the running costs and give any input I can but with the Desjoyaux, Magiline and Waterair or any other mono block filtration system low cost of ownership/running won't happen as the system, if I can call it that is power hungry.

By contrast it is possible to run a pool with 85-90% saving over a standard setup which compared to the big 3 mentioned because they use over large pumps to alleviate the poor flow, this means using a pump twice as powerful and therefore twice as expensive as a standard setup.

In the case of Desjoyaux they also bring pressure to bear on owners to continue using only Desjoyaux branded products or terrible things will happen! The only thing that will happen is the bank balance will fall quicker as they are very expensive standard products.

On the upside, it is precisely because the mono block filtration does work to a degree when things are running ok, I knew it was possible to achieve the a similar water flow setup on a lot less electricity by simply not wasting it and that has been achieved and actually even the low energy solution is way better than a mono block setup so we have to thank Desjoyaux, Magiline and Water air for that because if I hadn't seen how bad the setup was I probably wouldn't  have started looking for improvement.


That's a very kind offer, Théière. When the CS member who keeps an eye on finances returns to the south, probably some time in March I'll take you up on that - she was planning to get all the info from the syndic while here on this visit, but she has now told me that wrapping up their house purchase and move took much longer than they had thought.

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Re: Water discharge regs?

 suein56 wrote:
 gardengirl wrote:

I really don't know why the pool has always been emptied - and yes, it is a terrible waste.

I have a feeling that there is a law somewhere that says that all pools used by the public have to be emptied each year.
I think it is more to do with health and safety than anything else.
Will try and find a reference.

Sue



Thanks, Sue – that would seem to make some sort of sense I suppose.





Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.


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Re: Water discharge regs?

 suein56 wrote:
 gardengirl wrote:

I really don't know why the pool has always been emptied - and yes, it is a terrible waste.

I have a feeling that there is a law somewhere that says that all pools used by the public have to be emptied each year.
I think it is more to do with health and safety than anything else.
Will try and find a reference.

Sue


I think you may be right there Sue, I empty per year with 2 empties of a balance tank if fitted.

In some modern pools no additional or very little water is used, the water goes off to a holding and balance tank it settles and the micro filtration removes everything from the water so it can be re used as it is much cleaner than the incoming tap water.  In the case of good pools the water being drained is cleaner than the water being supplied. Better for the environment and lower costs all round.

I do dislike these kind of regulations as they are drawn up to globally apply to pools some of which are very poor. The correct action would be to make the poor pools upgrade and as such there is a pan European spec being drawn up at the moment which is being done by the giants of the industry who are all looking to protect their sales and profits and not really to improve very much. A separate part is the Health and safety section which nearly got skimmers outlawed and all pools to use lap edges on the simple basis that the opening of a skimmer at the waterline was too large compared the gap allowed in a fence for example. These people have no knowledge of pools but must obviously come up with suggestions or they won't get to go to the lunch clubs. I was informed there have been no entrapment cases involving skimmers so that idea will probably be dropped.

They are also trying to get rid of all pool covers except safety covers, so no more solar, don't worry it won't happen too many cover manufacturers will see to that.

I don't know the details of Gardengirls  pool but I would doubt, based on other Desjoyaux pools I have visited that also come under the regulations that any of the other parts comply regarding turnover, chemical dosing etc and based on the filtration frequently used by Desjoyaux it isn't really filtration it's straining of the larger pieces of dirt, and flocculation is not part of the system so it cannot remove bacteria, virus, or oocyst of cryptosporidium which is one of the biggest concerns with water based facilities world wide. This is also not of interest to Desjoyaux and the others   as it's unlikely to result in additional income for the pool companies via maintenance contracts.


Passivpool Energy "A++" rated Swimming Pools, the lowest running costs in the Universe.
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Re: Water discharge regs?

The regulations for public pools require them to be emptied and cleaned twice a year.

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074617&dateTexte=

and

http://www.guide-piscine.fr/dangers-a-la-piscine/noyade-et-hydrocution/vidange-des-bassins-une-etape-obligatoire-352_C

I believe a public pool includes anything intended for use by more than one family.


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Re: Water discharge regs?

From what I re read yesterday, basins once per year, tanks twice a year and on the second link they reference article 6 but article 6 is about chemical injection?  Further down the report it does mention tanks and basins in separate comments.

Even when emptied, the inside of pipework will not be accessible and that is where the majority of bacterial biofilm resides, cleaning the parts that are easily accessible may look good and be a step in the right direction for some pools but how effective it really is who knows.

Yes a public pool is a pool used by more than one family but in the case of pools less than 240m3 the system is more relaxed and of the multi occupancy gites I know have been inspected records of emptying were not requested and the water quality was more of concern.

Of course it should be more to do with bather loading than size, a small pool with a kids birthday party is far more likely to cause an issue than a medium pool 50m3 with two families of 3 in it. just no correlation in the regulations.

On the basis that 30ltrs of water per bather per day should be replaced under this regime as I said before a storage tank could be used to settle the water and an ultra fine filter (reverse osmosis) used to replenish the pool saving a lot of water and heating.

The inspectors have no flow monitoring device therefore water turnover and flow rate cannot be measured

I can summerise it very easily: 100% of all the Desjoyaux, Magiline and Waterair pools plus, used by more than one family fail.

The pool industry is a funny one, Last week I met the chap responsible for the London Olympic Aquatic Facility and he really is the second only person in the industry I have met who has the first clue about what is required to successfully make a good pool and his budget restraints meant taking shortcuts.  At the Olympic park the water that cannot be put back into the pool is used to flush the toilets but under UK heath code it must be treated first! just a little wry smile but that's the rule.

Most bacteria are killed easily but it's the ones that are stubbornly  resistant to chlorine etc that give concern like Cryptosporidium parvum. These have to be filtered out but 99% of the filters in use in swimming pools cannot remove Cryptosporidium, a point I made in the meeting last week and endorsed by 3 doctors on the panel 1 of whom work for the health UK the others for health Wales. The solution is to use flocculation and coagulation which can remove these pathogens.  Desjoyaux, Magiline and Waterair cannot use flocculation and have very poor filtration.

When was the last time you cleaned your filters?  Domestic filters do not backwash very well so leaving dirt etc behind which can quickly become a biological filter teaming with life.  The Swedish government commissioned a report into filtration and found dead skin was broken up in a filter and recirculated so flocculation is required to remove it with frequent backwash.

Poolguy used to write on this subject and was pilloried just for stating the french regulations.

Passivpool Energy "A++" rated Swimming Pools, the lowest running costs in the Universe.
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