French Education

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Re: Education advice for our 12 year old

I have just written four replies and deleted.

I suppose you are asking if I think, well actually I do.

I could write pages and pages.

 

I know about the debts that can be run up in the UK.

 

This boils down to why we teach anyone in the first place and how, the acquired knowledge and how it is used and how it is assessed and tested.

The philosphy of education is dear to my heart. I am not interested in tables comparing countries. I don't know of many teachers in either country who are happy to do simple sums without the benefit of a calculator, not talking about maths here.  Maths for me was a joy and interesting, but for many, as difficult as I find decorticating language. And most people will never need more than 'sums' in their lives.

 

 


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Re: Education advice for our 12 year old

Know what Rose? you're a breath of fresh air on this subject.
I know people mostly "take as they find", but honestly the negativism expressed here would put anyone off moving to France at all. There is good advice too, eg, finding a way of allowing an older child to continue to his/her education within the system they're used to, preparing for a move by engaging in a course of intensive French lessons. That's common sense.

Yes, there is always a risk, life is a risk. But it's also an adventure. And as quite a large number of people who write on this forum could testify, you deal with the effects of your decisions. If you are prepared to do that, make the choice that seems right for your family at the time.
That is all we can do. 

Idun, I do not understand your last post.


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Re: Education advice for our 12 year old

I am glad you posted, Rose ........... you said what I was trying to say, but better!


Sorry, I didn't understand your post either, Idun.
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Re: Education advice for our 12 year old

I was answering Joanna's post asking if anyone had thought about various things.

French education is as it is and just criticising would be malicious and foolhardy and I am not  either. Sadly I have good reason to make the comments I made. EVEN if it had been a breeze for us, then I would still have reason to make the comments I make, as when there are problems the  system not only cannot cope with these pupils with difficultes, but isn't equipped and often simply does not want to.

It isn't as if I am a lone voice, and I don't understand why people don't just look up l'echec scolaire and see how french kids are really doing. This is a link I have, I have lots of links. I read  and  read.

http://www.cafepedagogique.net/lexpresso/Pages/2008/09/EchecscolaireDeVecchi.aspx 

I also used to talk to people, people all over France  and many were well placed professional people, and as it happened as desparate as I was, as children with problems come from all echelons of society. 

 

And 'my' child has done well, great, good, where would we be if a system didn't work for any children at all, but if that is all people think of, well, good for them, I never have had such 'insulated'  thoughts, I was helping other parents at school well before our situation went to pot.

 

AND from La Bouture web page Teachers working against l'echec scolaire.

 

En 1996, Mme Bloch et Mr Gerde décident de créer l’association La Bouture. En effet, ils sont enseignants et font le constat que beaucoup de jeunes sortent du système scolaire sans diplôme. Ils rencontrent le recteur de l’époque afin de mettre en lumière cette problématique récurrente, et dans l’ombre, au sein de l’Education Nationale. Celui-ci leur donne alors une année de décharge pour réaliser une étude lui prouvant que le phénomène de décrochage scolaire existe bien au sein de l’institution et que beaucoup de ces jeunes ont la volonté de retourner à l’école.

Grâce à La Bouture ils fédérent, sensibilisent et étudient le phénomène du décrochage scolaire.

Ils réalisent de nombreuses monographies de jeunes qui ont décroché et décident d’imprimer sur la pellicule des « Paroles des décrocheurs » grâce à J-P Pénard, réalisateur et père d’une jeune fille qui a décroché. Ce film, illustrant le phénomène mal connu du décrochage scolaire et ses causes, est sorti en 1998.

MM Meirieu, Berger et Glasman ainsi que d’autres membres du conseil scientifique de la Bouture les aident à comprendre la détresse de ces jeunes et à analyser, à partir de leurs expériences, en quoi le système produit du décrochage scolaire.

Ils se battent alors pour monter le projet d’un établissement accueillant des jeunes qui ont décroché afin de leur permettre de raccrocher le système scolaire et de retrouver une identité scolaire par une offre alternative.


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Re: Education advice for our 12 year old

 idun wrote:

And 'my' child has done well, great, good, where would we be if a system didn't work for any children at all, but if that is all people think of, well, good for them, I never have had such 'insulated'  thoughts, I was helping other parents at school well before our situation went to pot.



Idum, you're clearly passionate about your thoughts and I respect this a great deal.  I may not agree with you in this instance but I do understand your passion.... Which is why I feel your comment above doesn't do you justice.  I am simply trying to offer some balance to a debate by sharing some of our first hand experiences... I think you're shrewd enough to realise that... which is why your comment was so unnessesary.

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Re: Education advice for our 12 year old

 idun wrote:

I know how it all works. I know how different it is to the UK. I know that good and bad schools doesn't quite work like that in France.

Do I know that some kids do well, yes I do.

Do I know that no one gives a xxxx about those that fall through the cracks, yes I know that too.



Since you "know" all these things, why bother asking me how children with difficulties are handled in our school? You've clearly no real interest in hearing the answer.

Jon
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Re: Education advice for our 12 year old



Not everyone's experience with the French system has worked for them.  Our experience was horrifying.  I don't come here and offer our story because it is very clear I would be attacked.  That is very sad.  A forum should allow all posters to offer all experiences without feeling they will be attacked.

I'm happy the system works for many students, but there are also a great many that it has failed - miserably.  I am not saying ALL French schools have this problem, but the ones we were assigned to did and still do.  Some of the students are extremely intelligent and the system's failure to 'accept' them and/or encourage any sort of free thinking is a huge blemish.  I know so many young people who left school because of these problems.  Smart kids who should be making a difference in the future of France, but were made to feel unaccepted, stupid, unwanted and were pretty much told - 'here's the door.'

I thank God my child is now in an extraordinary school with teachers who go beyond the call of duty and don't give up or shun any of their students.  Daughter has a 4.25 GPA with A+ grades achieved from Univ. (AP) classes from last year (Jr. High School) and a 1950 SAT score - taking it again next month to try to improve on that !  We are so happy now.  Our education shapes our lives and impacts the future of our countries.  Flaws should be pointed out and addressed.  There is always room for progress and change, but only if there is open communication and both sides are heard.

I think all experiences should be welcomed here. 





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Re: Education advice for our 12 year old

We can only write from personal experience.  Some of us have had bad experiences in the UK and in France, some of us good.  But it is good to share them so that others can make informed decisions about their own children.

From my part, I have educated a number of children initially in the UK, in France and at home, depending on what suited them best or where we were living.  All my children are now bilingual and some of them are starting to emerge into the world of work.  All are finding employment because they are bilingual.

As for the original posted wanting to know about bring an older child to France.  Two of my children were adolescents upon arrival and have done well.  You have to remember that many children have a deep desire to speak another language and that desire sees them through the tough times.  My advice is to take as much time as you are able to and do a sabbatical, rent a house (rents in the winter/spring are surprisingly low in France) and place your child into a French school for one or two terms.  That's how I started out and how our family could then make the more permanent step of living in France.





Nous ne pouvons pas tous faire de grandes choses, mais nous pouvons faire des petites choses avec beaucoup d’amour.
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