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Re: French prononciation of English names and places

So is it safe to say that Schoomarrer should not be thus pronounced?

I would love to know how and where it originated, all the French TV presenters say it and they must know better.


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Re: French prononciation of English names and places

 Chancer wrote:
So is it safe to say that Schoomarrer should not be thus pronounced? 

I would love to know how and where it originated, all the French TV presenters say it and they must know better.

It's not a question of whether they know better.  It's simply that the pronunciation of the German "ch" in this word is difficult for French people (including TV presenters), so what they say is only an approximation.  And you have to remember that most of their listeners are French and wouldn't necessarily hear the difference.

Many English people (including TV presenters) pronounce Loch Ness "Lock Ness", for the same reason.  And most of their English listeners probably don't notice anything wrong - although the Scots certainly do. 

There must be examples of this in all languages.  Many English speakers pronounce the French vous the same as vu, and content the same as canton, not because they don't know any better, but because they find it too difficult to make the sounds correctly - or because they can't hear the difference.


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Re: French prononciation of English names and places

Point taken Allan but there is a world of difference between Loch - Loch and macher - marrer, its not even remotely similar, I am trying to think of some French words that also contain ach, cracher springs to mind yet no-one pronounces it crarrer.

There has to be another reason as it is systematic,  my belief is that it did indeed start with the newsreaders, I am sure that for 99% of the people that is the first time they heard the name Michael Shoomarrer, I would add that all the newsreaders pronounce the Michael correctly as do most French people I know yet any other Michael gets called Mikael Sad [:(]


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Re: French prononciation of English names and places

Great discussion.  In fact, unless one has studied phonetics, I think it's very difficult to convey sounds in print, thus there's always a chance that Frenchie's rr sounds like the German ch to her, it's hard to tell.  I've often seen the British th written as a z in French text books (sic), so what chance have studiers of our language got to pronounce this correctly?  I've had a lot of luck getting my French friends to do this well so it's not a lack of ability, just poor teaching and a given wisdom in the classroom which seems to be accepted and passed on by ignorant (in its literal, not insulting, sense) language teachers.

My favourite pet hate at the moment is the wonderful Kauto Star.  In what universe can one possibly read that as Kay-toe?  In spite of his owner and trainer both telling the public on numberous occasions that it is pronounced as written (Cor-toe), I still hear commentators and pundits and many others who should know better, using the former pronounciation.  Thus what hope have the rest of us got? 

David Coulthard has repeatedly said that he pronounces the th as in the in his surname, but still I hear people pronouncing it Coultard.  I agree with Chancer on this one.  Surely it's up to the owner of the name (or the owner of the beast) to determine how to say it, not anybody else? 


"I couldn't sleep very well last night. Some noisy b*ggers going around in automobiles kept me awake." Ken Miles
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Re: French prononciation of English names and places

In which case I would like henceforth to be adressed as Shanker Stick out tongue [:P]
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Re: French prononciation of English names and places

No problem Shanker!

Frenchie, seriously, do you think that the ch in Schumacher's name should sound like the rr in marrow, because when I read your post, that is what it conveys to me, or have I simply interpreted your phonetic spelling incorrectly? 


"I couldn't sleep very well last night. Some noisy b*ggers going around in automobiles kept me awake." Ken Miles
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Re: French prononciation of English names and places

http://www.allemagne-au-max.com/forum/prononciation-a-la-francaise-michael-schumacher-vt1044.html

http://www.forvo.com/word/michael_schumacher/

http://www.radio-canada.ca/radio/francaismicro/description.asp?ID=1320&CAT=S&leid=616&lacat=c


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Re: French prononciation of English names and places

And here's a real German doing it!

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/5172736/Michael_Schumacher_Ein_Leben_am_Limit_Teil_5

(Sorry about the ads).  In fact there are several different Germans on here and all pronounce the ch in a way far closer to ch as in the Scottish loch, than rr as in marrow.  Sorry, Regine, but I don't hear the double r sound once.Sad [:(]


"I couldn't sleep very well last night. Some noisy b*ggers going around in automobiles kept me awake." Ken Miles
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